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  1. high quality genetically small koi

    I have a smaller pond 1000-1200 gallons. I would still like to collect more than 3-4 koi, and can't expand my pond.

    I have heard of respected breeders in Japan that have intentionally bred high quality koi (bonsai) koi. I'm not talking about breeding in high nitrate environments and starving the poor devils, but breeding lines that are smaller and have beautiful proportions, skin, and color.

    Does anyone know of a dealer in the states that specializes in this? I know there's a domestic breeder that does this - http://www.koitogo.com/ - but I'd really like to get Japanese lines...

    If not, here is my plan. Please tell me if it makes sense:

    Buy smaller male nisai.
    Buy male Doitsu Sanke, Kohaku or Showa or maybe Doitsu Shiro Utsuri (I have heard they grow slower)
    Feed high quality, lower protein foods

    Thoughts?
    -Brian


  2. 1000 gallons is a good goldfish sized pond.

  3. I have kept a 3,000 gallon pond for over 10 years. My first year i purchased about 10 koi and kept them for three years before my first 'disaster' not related to stocking density. They were about 15-16 inches at three years old. I now have only 3 koi in the same pond, they're 2 Nisai and pushing the 20'' mark and one is a aka nisai over 16''. I believe you dont need to search for bonsai koi, you can just buy the quality and quantity you want and they are not going to grow very much. Just monitor the parameters well. I think that if you wanted Jumbo koi, in 1,000 gal, you'd be lucky to get one koi to its potential. When 'growing' fish, i have heard it suggested that 1,000 gal/koi is the minimum (obviously parameters and filtration make a difference as well)
    Last edited by inazuma28; 12-09-2013 at 10:30 AM.

  4. I went to a pond on a tour a few years back where the owner had a small pond around 1000 gallons and it was at the end of a 25 foot narrow stream. One huge koi occupied the setup. The koi would fly up the stream to get handouts at the headwaters. Very entertaining to see a fish this big jet up the stream. With the top fin out of the water reminded me of a shark on attack.

    It took 2,000 years of genetically altering carp to get todays small goldfish. Its possible to keep koi in a small container but a lot more difficult.

  5. I have some koi that are genetically small. Some raised here and some I bought.

    Several came from Japan. They had good patterns and a low price for a good pattern. I suspect that low price is because they had been identified as koi that would have little growth and let go at a low price.

    Perhaps you can find some one who has some runts they want to sell, that do not grow.

    Perhaps you can also look at Kodama website for older koi, that are smaller size.
    Nancy



  6. I gave my brother some Kohaku fry and he rasied about 5 of them in a 15 gal aquarium. Two years later they healthy and stunted about 3 inches. This year he took 4 Dainichi 3 month old Showa fry and placed them in a 30 gallon tank. I give him credit because he is enjoying himself. He doesn't know or care about pattern or how much the koi is worth, he just wants to keep them alive for a long time in his aquarium. They seem to grow according to the environment they are placed in. Latter when they old enough he will probably ask me to spawn them for him.

  7. I keep six breeder males growing and healthy in a 1,200 lined container with about 700 gallons of water. I just flush the ultima 2000 filter with 1/8 hp external pump daily. The daily change of water keep the water refreshed and nitrate in check. I don't need to add dechlor where I live. Moreover, I keep five females in a separate 5000 gal intex pool with 2,500 gallons of water using the same size ultima 2000 filter and pump. In addition, I have a 500 gallon fry tank with a ultima 1000 and 1/16 hp external pump.

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    Last edited by Roger; 12-09-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  8. Maybe ask a hobby breeder....my parent koi are from japan and I have a group of fry from this year where the biggest is 7" and the smallest is a matsukawabake that WILL NOT grow at 1" There are always runts in the litter

    Going to save that one for a while to see what happens...he's obviously not taking up a lot of space lol


  9. I have been to breeders in Japan that keep fish small as there are many hobbyists in Japan that have very limited space. Like in growing bonsai trees, the key here is simply reducing the environment to restrict growth. Sakazume is one of them and he sells many "bonsai Nisai" especially Goromos. But, I don't know of any breeders who actually have genetically stunted fish. They just keep them in crowded conditions to keep them small. Size isn't everything and is not a indicator based on prices either. Some bonsai koi can be rather expensive relatively speaking. I have seen and know of some hobbyists however, who can actually grow koi in small 1000-1500gal ponds, with a heavy stocking load and still get fish to grow to 25+" as well. It does have something to do with what Kodama stated about Pheromones but I wouldn't reduce the water changes to make this happen.

    Yes, there are many varieties of Doitsu fish that do tend to grow slower than their wagoi counterparts, but not always and males, in a small environment would be your best bet as well. As to needing 1000gal/fish to get good growth, this has more to do with growing female fish to very large sizes and for competition mostly. 250gal or more is more the norm for the average hobbyist and 500 is more of the ideal all around number.
    Mike

    check out our website at:http://www.pond-life.net




    "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

  10. Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950View Post
    I have been to breeders in Japan that keep fish small as there are many hobbyists in Japan that have very limited space. Like in growing bonsai trees, the key here is simply reducing the environment to restrict growth. Sakazume is one of them and he sells many "bonsai Nisai" especially Goromos. But, I don't know of any breeders who actually have genetically stunted fish. They just keep them in crowded conditions to keep them small. Size isn't everything and is not a indicator based on prices either. Some bonsai koi can be rather expensive relatively speaking. I have seen and know of some hobbyists however, who can actually grow koi in small 1000-1500gal ponds, with a heavy stocking load and still get fish to grow to 25+" as well. It does have something to do with what Kodama stated about Pheromones but I wouldn't reduce the water changes to make this happen.

    Yes, there are many varieties of Doitsu fish that do tend to grow slower than their wagoi counterparts, but not always and males, in a small environment would be your best bet as well. As to needing 1000gal/fish to get good growth, this has more to do with growing female fish to very large sizes and for competition mostly. 250gal or more is more the norm for the average hobbyist and 500 is more of the ideal all around number.

    Thank you Mike. This is very helpful.
    -Brian


  11. Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950View Post
    I have been to breeders in Japan that keep fish small as there are many hobbyists in Japan that have very limited space. Like in growing bonsai trees, the key here is simply reducing the environment to restrict growth. Sakazume is one of them and he sells many "bonsai Nisai" especially Goromos. But, I don't know of any breeders who actually have genetically stunted fish. They just keep them in crowded conditions to keep them small. Size isn't everything and is not a indicator based on prices either. Some bonsai koi can be rather expensive relatively speaking. I have seen and know of some hobbyists however, who can actually grow koi in small 1000-1500gal ponds, with a heavy stocking load and still get fish to grow to 25+" as well. It does have something to do with what Kodama stated about Pheromones but I wouldn't reduce the water changes to make this happen.

    Yes, there are many varieties of Doitsu fish that do tend to grow slower than their wagoi counterparts, but not always and males, in a small environment would be your best bet as well. As to needing 1000gal/fish to get good growth, this has more to do with growing female fish to very large sizes and for competition mostly. 250gal or more is more the norm for the average hobbyist and 500 is more of the ideal all around number.

    How about diet? Is there a strategy that would involve maintaining good health, immunity and color but slowing growth?
    -Brian


  12. My smaller koi are not kept in an environment to keep them small. They have been kept with some koi that have reached 30 inches.

    Several years ago I bred 2 female butterfly koi. One was young and quite small at the time, but had eggs. I do not know if some of the smaller butterfly koi came from that female or not. But all were grown in the same pond. Some have are quite small, others seem to have normal growth.

    I have a Showa that originally came from Ray Abell. I got him from a friend of Ray's who was breeding his own koi and I went to a mud pond pull there. When I saw the Showa, I immediately knew he did not spawn that one because it was a much higher quality than the other fish in the tank. When I asked if he had bred that one he said Ray had given it to him. I knew that if Ray had given it to him to put in his mud pond there was a reason. I just figured he had been sick or did not meet Ray's standards. This is one of the smaller koi in my pond. I have had him for many years and he has had very little growth. Now I feel the reason he was a Ray cull, is his lack of growth.

    I am sure there are many koi that do have poor growth even in those from Japan. I would guess most of those with poor growth are included in their culls, deemed not worth their time for further growth.

    I also have a Hi Showa that a dealer said would be a better choice than getting a Hi Utsuri. It is a nice looking koi and had a great pattern when I got it. Not as expensive as I would have expected it to be for such a nice pattern. It is also one of my koi that has had very little growth and is already smaller that the Hi Utsuri that I got that was from a 2011 spawn.

    So there are koi that do not grow large, and they do not have to be stunted by starvation and small tanks. Finding them may be the difficult part, since I am sure good breeders do not keep such stock.
    Nancy



  13. Actually, there are some breeders who will keep fish that don't grow large IF they are very high quality. There is a serious market in Japan for them as I stated before, many hobbyists there do not have much space for larger ponds and choose to keep koi in very small quarters. Do you actually think that all the small fish in the All Japan Show are tosai/small Nisai? They are not.

    It is true, not all koi will grow large, some/many that are exported are not going to get to jumbo proportions. They actually will stay smaller, usually less than 20-24", especially the males.

    There is no secret as to what to feed to keep them small, it's the environment provided and the AMOUNT of food that can help determine growth in many cases.
    Mike

    check out our website at:http://www.pond-life.net




    "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


  14. I am starting to see this concept!


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  15. Since i have never seen a bonsai koi fully grown, i have to wonder about the conformation. Has anyone ever seen a fully grown bonsai koi with the limited length but correct proportions of an adult?? is it possible to get the impressive looking proportions in a koi under 20''?

  16. I have a sansai Dainichi sanke male that is only 19". It is never much of a grower. It will soon be the smallest koi in my pond getting taken over by my aka-naisai's. I have never heard of Dainichi having a bansai line so I guess the small size is just genetic accident from too much in-breeding.

    Can a breeder purposely breed smaller koi? I think the answer is yes. Just like how most breeders want to breed large size genes into the line, some breeders can do the opposite.

    I should ask Russ to find me a bonsai Karashi; a small and friendly fish.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28View Post
    Since i have never seen a bonsai koi fully grown, i have to wonder about the conformation. Has anyone ever seen a fully grown bonsai koi with the limited length but correct proportions of an adult?? is it possible to get the impressive looking proportions in a koi under 20''?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ejw21CRkY
    -Brian


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Koi Fish can definitely live in a fish tank. Koi are not typically small fish so you must accommodate them accordingly or they will die off quickly. Below I have hopefully given you the information needed to make informed decisions based on your unique situation. So whether you have domestic, Japanese or Jumbo species just remember that your fish are going to eventually be anywhere from 1’ to 3’ long.

Most people don’t have a big enough home to fit a tank large enough for 3’ Koi. Something else to consider if you are wanting Koi and do not own them yet. Koi can live a very long time, some as long as 50 years. So make sure you are ready for the commitment it takes to care for these beautiful fish.

Keeping Koi in a fish tank comes with challenges different than other fish species because of their size and how messy they can be. The reason they are messy is because even though they can live in a tank it doesn’t mean they should be kept in a tank for more than the winter before they get placed back out into the pond.

baby koi fish

Koi Fish Tank Setup

  • Filtration should be on the side of being too much. I firmly believe that having a filtration system large enough to over handle the requirements of filtering a Koi Aquarium will inevitably keep your fish healthy and alive. For instance if you have a 55 gallon aquarium purchase a filter that is rated for 50 to 75gallon setup as an example. This will be the best choice since Koi prefer fast moving water. The filter along with a water current maker will provide that moving water for them.
  • Lighting for a Koi tank should be just like any other aquarium lighting setup. 8 hours is probably good however you could run lighting as long as 10 to 12 hours as long as you give some complete darkness for the fish at a minimum of 12 hours per day. My fish usually get total darkness 8 or so hours and 4 or so hours at room lighting before the aquarium lights turn on.
  • Temperature for a Koi tank should be somewhere in the range of 60 to 65 degrees Fahrenheit which is about 15 to 20 Celcius. Yes Koi can live in very cold water outside but these are not outside fish now however some hobbyists might argue that a chiller would even be better to have on the aquarium set up. I fell that you can try cooler water as in room temperature and if the fish seem to lethargic then try turning the heat up a degree every other day viewing how active them become. Once they seem happier stop increasing the temperature.
  • Highly oxygenated water is preferred by Koi so aquariums with larger water to air contact are better than tanks that are taller with smaller areas at the top of the tank. Adding oxygen to water might help but not as well as having a larger surface area. Try live plants as well.
  • Live plants are a great idea and will help the fish feel like they are outside in a pond. Floating live plants would be good as well but not so much that it blocks out to much light. Be warned though that your Koi might end up eating your live plants. It depends on the specific fish though, some will eat the plants some won’t.
  • Some form of substrate to cover the bottom would be okay as well as adding a few large pieces of wood or rock so the fish feel like they are in their natural habitat.
  • A canopy of the aquarium is a good idea to help keep the fish from jumping out or since they are large fish typically they can splash easily causing water to shoot out of the tank.

Koi fish saying hello

How to Feed Koi Fish in an Aquarium

  • Koi are omnivorous so will eat just about anything. You can purchase specialized food for them and I recommend you do that.
  • I mentioned previously that these fish might eat any live plants in the tank. I have seen some that do not eat plants. Maybe they were getting fed enough or possibly the plants weren’t a variety that seemed edible to them.
  • When feeding just provide enough food that the fish can eat in a few minutes time, anything extra will get scooped up by the oversized filtration system.
  • One thing that might surprise you is the way Koi’s eat. They will dig around in the gravel moving stuff around looking for the fallen food. Your tank water will start to cloud up very quickly if the aquarium has any undesirable excrement and other things embedded in the gravel.

How Many Gallons Does one Koi Fish Need to Survive and Thrive

  • This is a tough question to answer but I will sure give it a try. Because of the possible girth of your koi fish the gallons required will greatly differ.
  • If you think of the requirements for gallons of water required in a pond to house Koi then you are looking at about 1” to 3” of fish per 10 gallons or so of water.
  • Of course now if you are putting Koi in an aquarium in your home unless you only have a few Koi you are probably going to be well over that ration.
  • You will also have to consider not just how big the fish is when you originally put it in a tank but how big it will grow over time.
  • So how much space does a Koi Fish need? Try to follow the rule of thumb for filling a pond and you can’t go wrong.
  • A Koi Fish minimum tank size probably shouldn’t be less than 50 gallons for as little as two or three fish. It doesn’t seem like much but if these fish even just get a foot long each then a 50 gallon might be too small.

koi art work

Conclusion

Be smart and take your time when deciding which fish to bring home for a Koi tank. There are so many different color combinations in these fish that it might be difficult to decide which ones to buy.

Just remember that they live a very long time and they will get quite large so consider these things as well. If you plan on keeping the Koi outdoors in the summer then it might not be as big a deal but I would try to avoid overstocking and filling your Koi aquarium at all costs. These are living creatures that deserve the best of care.

If you are in the process of looking for an Aquarium check out my resources page.

Related Posts

Why Do Koi Fish Lose Their Scales?

Do Koi Fish Get Along with Goldfish?

Sours: https://aquariumsathome.com/can-koi-fish-live-in-tank/

Introducing New Koi to Your Pond

Introducing new koi or goldfish to your pond is an exciting event, however there are a few simple things you should do to ensure that your new fish will settle in to the pond.

Introducing Koi to Your Pond

1. Select Your Fish Carefully

When buying koi or goldfish at a retailer, look at the overall health of all the fish in the tank or tub that the fish are in. It is easy to overlook the condition of the other fish in the tub that you are not interested in, but you should look for open sores or ulcers, clamped fins, grey film on the skin etc. If you see any signs of disease on the other fish, seriously consider not buying any fish because it could be the start of a disease outbreak in the tub. Occasionally, you may see one fish that does not appear to be healthy in a tank full of strong, healthy, vigorous fish. In this case, it is likely that it is just the one fish that is weak from shipping, not eating properly or some other non infectious problem. In this situation, it is likely safe to buy your fish, but make sure to quarantine it, before adding it to your pond.

Always ask your retailer how long the fish have been at the store. Many stores that sell fish will receive them one day and sell them the next day. Koi and goldfish need time to recover from the stress of being shipped. During shipping, fish are crowded and stressed and by the time fish reach the store, the water quality in the bag is poor and the oxygen levels are low. At this time the fish are very vulnerable to parasitic and bacterial infections. They need at least a few days to recover from this.

At Hydrosphere Water Gardens – We quarantine all our new fish arrivals a minimum of 2 weeks to allow them to recover from the stress of shipping. We randomly inspect new arrivals microscopically to look for any potential problems such as flukes, ick, costia etc. All new fish are given a series of preventative treatments to ensure there are no disease outbreaks in our systems.

There is no such thing as a fish that is completely free from bacteria or parasites. One way to explain it is – fish live in ‘harmony’ with their environment. Each pond or aquarium is unique, and contains a certain number of unique ‘critters’ (bacteria and parasites). Fish in any given pond adapt to that environment and may be perfectly healthy there for years. Your pond, no matter how healthy your fish are, has different set of ‘critters’, and when you add a new fish it has to adapt to these ‘critters’.  Most of the time fish adapt to a new pond without a problem, but occasionally fish don’t react well to the new conditions. This is why quarantining fish is important.

2. Quarantine All Fish

Before introducing new koi to your pond it is best to quarantine them in a separate tub or aquarium. Although it is the last thing most pond keepers want to do, no matter where you buy your koi or goldfish, you should quarantine them for a minimum of 3 weeks. Quarantining new fish allows you to closely monitor their health, and allows them to get used to your ponds unique conditions. By adding pond water to your quarantine tank, your new fish will be gradually introduced to the ‘critters’ that are found in your pond but in a controlled environment.  In the worst case, quarantining can save your existing fish population  from potentially dangerous viruses such as KVH or SVC. Even a fish that looks perfectly healthy could be carrying a virus but may not show any symptoms for more than 1 week. For more detailed information see our Koi Quarantine Procedures page.

At Hydrosphere Water Gardens – we buy our koi and goldfish from reputable fish farms that are routinely checked for SVC and KVH viruses. Our Japanese Koi shipments arrive with health certificates for each farm.

3. Add Only A Few Fish At A Time

Adding too many fish at one time, especially to a new pond, can result in poor water quality (high ammonia, nitrite) which almost always leads to fish disease. If you have a small pond, 500 gallons or less, add no more than 6 small fish (3″-4″). If you have a larger ponds you can add  5 or 6 larger fish (5″-6″) etc. Adding a reasonable number of fish allows your biological filter to adapt to the increased waste produced by the new fish and prevent water quality problems.

4. Add Your Fish To The Pond

Once your fish are quarantined, you are ready to add them to your pond. First, make sure the quarantine tank and pond temperatures are fairly close – within 5°C. The best way to introduce fish is to place them in a large bag with the water from their quarantine tank, and float it in your pond for about 15 minutes to allow the temperatures to equilibrate. Then take another 10 to 15 minutes and gradually fill the bag with pond water just in case other parameters such as pH, alkalinity etc are different. Finally, submerge the bag and let the fish swim out when they are ready. For more information, watch a video on Acclimating Pond Fish

5. Watch Your Fish Carefully

Watch your fish carefully for the next few weeks. It may take up to a few weeks for a bacterial or parasite problem to show up. Watch your new fish as well as your existing fish in the pond. New fish can bring disease into a healthy established pond.

Sours: https://www.pondexperts.ca/pond-advice-tips/introducing-new-fish-to-your-pond/

Fish small koi

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  1. high quality genetically small koi

    I have a smaller pond gallons. I would still like to collect more than koi, and can't expand my pond.

    I have heard of respected breeders in Japan that have intentionally bred high quality koi (bonsai) koi. I'm not talking about breeding in high nitrate environments and starving the poor devils, but breeding lines that are smaller and have beautiful proportions, skin, and color.

    Does anyone know of a dealer in the states that specializes in this? I know there's a domestic breeder that does this - http://www.koitogo.com/ - but I'd really like to get Japanese lines

    If not, here is my plan. Please tell me if it makes sense:

    Buy smaller male nisai.
    Buy male Doitsu Sanke, Kohaku or Showa or maybe Doitsu Shiro Utsuri (I have heard they grow slower)
    Feed high quality, lower protein foods

    Thoughts?
    -Brian


  2. gallons is a good goldfish sized pond.

  3. I have kept a 3, gallon pond for over 10 years. My first year i purchased about 10 koi and kept them for three years before my first 'disaster' not related to stocking density. They were about inches at three years old. I now have only 3 koi in the same pond, they're 2 Nisai and pushing the 20'' mark and one is a aka nisai over 16''. I believe you dont need to search for bonsai koi, you can just buy the quality and quantity you want and they are not going to grow very much. Just monitor the parameters well. I think that if you wanted Jumbo koi, in 1, gal, you'd be lucky to get one koi to its potential. When 'growing' fish, i have heard it suggested that 1, gal/koi is the minimum (obviously parameters and filtration make a difference as well)
    Last edited by inazuma28; at AM.

  4. I went to a pond on a tour a few years back where the owner had a small pond around gallons and it was at the end of a 25 foot narrow stream. One huge koi occupied the setup. The koi would fly up the stream to get handouts at the headwaters. Very entertaining to see a fish this big jet up the stream. With the top fin out of the water reminded me of a shark on attack.

    It took 2, years of genetically altering carp to get todays small goldfish. Its possible to keep koi in a small container but a lot more difficult.

  5. I have some koi that are genetically small. Some raised here and some I bought.

    Several came from Japan. They had good patterns and a low price for a good pattern. I suspect that low price is because they had been identified as koi that would have little growth and let go at a low price.

    Perhaps you can find some one who has some runts they want to sell, that do not grow.

    Perhaps you can also look at Kodama website for older koi, that are smaller size.
    Nancy



  6. I gave my brother some Kohaku fry and he rasied about 5 of them in a 15 gal aquarium. Two years later they healthy and stunted about 3 inches. This year he took 4 Dainichi 3 month old Showa fry and placed them in a 30 gallon tank. I give him credit because he is enjoying himself. He doesn't know or care about pattern or how much the koi is worth, he just wants to keep them alive for a long time in his aquarium. They seem to grow according to the environment they are placed in. Latter when they old enough he will probably ask me to spawn them for him.

  7. I keep six breeder males growing and healthy in a 1, lined container with about gallons of water. I just flush the ultima filter with 1/8 hp external pump daily. The daily change of water keep the water refreshed and nitrate in check. I don't need to add dechlor where I live. Moreover, I keep five females in a separate gal intex pool with 2, gallons of water using the same size ultima filter and pump. In addition, I have a gallon fry tank with a ultima and 1/16 hp external pump.

    Name: DSCF - Copy.jpg Views: Size: KBName: DSCF - Copy.jpg Views: Size: KB
    Last edited by Roger; at PM.

  8. Maybe ask a hobby breedermy parent koi are from japan and I have a group of fry from this year where the biggest is 7" and the smallest is a matsukawabake that WILL NOT grow at 1" There are always runts in the litter

    Going to save that one for a while to see what happenshe's obviously not taking up a lot of space lol


  9. I have been to breeders in Japan that keep fish small as there are many hobbyists in Japan that have very limited space. Like in growing bonsai trees, the key here is simply reducing the environment to restrict growth. Sakazume is one of them and he sells many "bonsai Nisai" especially Goromos. But, I don't know of any breeders who actually have genetically stunted fish. They just keep them in crowded conditions to keep them small. Size isn't everything and is not a indicator based on prices either. Some bonsai koi can be rather expensive relatively speaking. I have seen and know of some hobbyists however, who can actually grow koi in small gal ponds, with a heavy stocking load and still get fish to grow to 25+" as well. It does have something to do with what Kodama stated about Pheromones but I wouldn't reduce the water changes to make this happen.

    Yes, there are many varieties of Doitsu fish that do tend to grow slower than their wagoi counterparts, but not always and males, in a small environment would be your best bet as well. As to needing gal/fish to get good growth, this has more to do with growing female fish to very large sizes and for competition mostly. gal or more is more the norm for the average hobbyist and is more of the ideal all around number.
    Mike

    check out our website at:http://www.pond-life.net




    "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

  10. Quote Originally Posted by koimanView Post
    I have been to breeders in Japan that keep fish small as there are many hobbyists in Japan that have very limited space. Like in growing bonsai trees, the key here is simply reducing the environment to restrict growth. Sakazume is one of them and he sells many "bonsai Nisai" especially Goromos. But, I don't know of any breeders who actually have genetically stunted fish. They just keep them in crowded conditions to keep them small. Size isn't everything and is not a indicator based on prices either. Some bonsai koi can be rather expensive relatively speaking. I have seen and know of some hobbyists however, who can actually grow koi in small gal ponds, with a heavy stocking load and still get fish to grow to 25+" as well. It does have something to do with what Kodama stated about Pheromones but I wouldn't reduce the water changes to make this happen.

    Yes, there are many varieties of Doitsu fish that do tend to grow slower than their wagoi counterparts, but not always and males, in a small environment would be your best bet as well. As to needing gal/fish to get good growth, this has more to do with growing female fish to very large sizes and for competition mostly. gal or more is more the norm for the average hobbyist and is more of the ideal all around number.

    Thank you Mike. This is very helpful.
    -Brian


  11. Quote Originally Posted by koimanView Post
    I have been to breeders in Japan that keep fish small as there are many hobbyists in Japan that have very limited space. Like in growing bonsai trees, the key here is simply reducing the environment to restrict growth. Sakazume is one of them and he sells many "bonsai Nisai" especially Goromos. But, I don't know of any breeders who actually have genetically stunted fish. They just keep them in crowded conditions to keep them small. Size isn't everything and is not a indicator based on prices either. Some bonsai koi can be rather expensive relatively speaking. I have seen and know of some hobbyists however, who can actually grow koi in small gal ponds, with a heavy stocking load and still get fish to grow to 25+" as well. It does have something to do with what Kodama stated about Pheromones but I wouldn't reduce the water changes to make this happen.

    Yes, there are many varieties of Doitsu fish that do tend to grow slower than their wagoi counterparts, but not always and males, in a small environment would be your best bet as well. As to needing gal/fish to get good growth, this has more to do with growing female fish to very large sizes and for competition mostly. gal or more is more the norm for the average hobbyist and is more of the ideal all around number.

    How about diet? Is there a strategy that would involve maintaining good health, immunity and color but slowing growth?
    -Brian


  12. My smaller koi are not kept in an environment to keep them small. They have been kept with some koi that have reached 30 inches.

    Several years ago I bred 2 female butterfly koi. One was young and quite small at the time, but had eggs. I do not know if some of the smaller butterfly koi came from that female or not. But all were grown in the same pond. Some have are quite small, others seem to have normal growth.

    I have a Showa that originally came from Ray Abell. I got him from a friend of Ray's who was breeding his own koi and I went to a mud pond pull there. When I saw the Showa, I immediately knew he did not spawn that one because it was a much higher quality than the other fish in the tank. When I asked if he had bred that one he said Ray had given it to him. I knew that if Ray had given it to him to put in his mud pond there was a reason. I just figured he had been sick or did not meet Ray's standards. This is one of the smaller koi in my pond. I have had him for many years and he has had very little growth. Now I feel the reason he was a Ray cull, is his lack of growth.

    I am sure there are many koi that do have poor growth even in those from Japan. I would guess most of those with poor growth are included in their culls, deemed not worth their time for further growth.

    I also have a Hi Showa that a dealer said would be a better choice than getting a Hi Utsuri. It is a nice looking koi and had a great pattern when I got it. Not as expensive as I would have expected it to be for such a nice pattern. It is also one of my koi that has had very little growth and is already smaller that the Hi Utsuri that I got that was from a spawn.

    So there are koi that do not grow large, and they do not have to be stunted by starvation and small tanks. Finding them may be the difficult part, since I am sure good breeders do not keep such stock.
    Nancy



  13. Actually, there are some breeders who will keep fish that don't grow large IF they are very high quality. There is a serious market in Japan for them as I stated before, many hobbyists there do not have much space for larger ponds and choose to keep koi in very small quarters. Do you actually think that all the small fish in the All Japan Show are tosai/small Nisai? They are not.

    It is true, not all koi will grow large, some/many that are exported are not going to get to jumbo proportions. They actually will stay smaller, usually less than ", especially the males.

    There is no secret as to what to feed to keep them small, it's the environment provided and the AMOUNT of food that can help determine growth in many cases.
    Mike

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  14. I am starting to see this concept!


    Name: minime.jpg Views: Size: KB


  15. Since i have never seen a bonsai koi fully grown, i have to wonder about the conformation. Has anyone ever seen a fully grown bonsai koi with the limited length but correct proportions of an adult?? is it possible to get the impressive looking proportions in a koi under 20''?

  16. I have a sansai Dainichi sanke male that is only 19". It is never much of a grower. It will soon be the smallest koi in my pond getting taken over by my aka-naisai's. I have never heard of Dainichi having a bansai line so I guess the small size is just genetic accident from too much in-breeding.

    Can a breeder purposely breed smaller koi? I think the answer is yes. Just like how most breeders want to breed large size genes into the line, some breeders can do the opposite.

    I should ask Russ to find me a bonsai Karashi; a small and friendly fish.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28View Post
    Since i have never seen a bonsai koi fully grown, i have to wonder about the conformation. Has anyone ever seen a fully grown bonsai koi with the limited length but correct proportions of an adult?? is it possible to get the impressive looking proportions in a koi under 20''?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ejw21CRkY
    -Brian


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Koi fish selection in Japan - How baby Koi are selected [KOI SELECTION GUIDE]

Will koi stay small in a small pond?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the vehement response but that garden center guy who told you that is perpetuating a myth that is responsible for a lot of fish deaths and a lot of koi and goldfish having miserable short lives when with proper care, they can live 15-20 yrs - OR MORE. He reallly ought to know better.

Koi's natural size is 2-3 feet long. You keep them in a cramped space where they cant grow properly - the internal organs will continue grow, the body really can't - the fish becomes physically debilitated, stressed and susceptible to disease. They dont "stay small," its more like the fish die young. That's how they "stay small."

Aside from the health and well being of the fish the question comes to mind- WHY? Why even attempt this when there are many comet goldfish with long fins/tails, calico shubunkins with amazing colors..... even a lot of new types of brightly colored goldfish that have been bred for ponds - Ive seen some that are solid metallic blue and some that are a bright clear yellow (might have to look for speciality shops).

About 3-5 goldfish is all you want in 150 gals. No koi please! You want to allow enough space to be able to see your fish swimming freely and moving around in a school - very restful to watch. Its so sad when I see large koi having no room to move and just lying there like sardines in a can. For a fish, koi are reasonably intelligent, and need room to dive and excercise - at least 4 feet deep is recommended. More if you got it!

I do hope that is helpful info .... and I appreciate you coming to check it out prior to fish purchase. For many of us our fish become beloved pets, not as brilliant and clever as the cat perhaps but a beloved pet nevertheless. They know who theyre owners are and who feeds them and follow people they know around the pond like puppy dogs. If you really have your heart set on koi.... pls, pls research and plan a bigger, expanded koi pond!

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Similar news:

With the warm, summer weather approaching, perhaps you’ve thought about adding a Koi fishpond to your backyard, outdoor oasis. Starting this task takes time, effort and money on your part, but it’s also a very rewarding and enjoyable pastime once complete. Right now, you may be wondering to yourself, ‘how small can an outdoor fishpond be or is bigger actually better when it comes to a Koi pond?’

The absolute ‘smallest’ size for a Koi pond is 500-gallons and 2 feet deep, and that’s for a mere 2 fish. A 1,000 gallon, 3 feet deep pond is better and will nicely sustain 2 to 4 Koi fish. This species can grow quite large and needs plenty of space to swim about. Therefore, it’s imperative that the pond be big enough otherwise, the fish will not fair well. When it comes to keeping Koi in an outdoor fishpond, bigger is always better!

Now that you know a Koi fishpond should hold at least 500-gallons of water, let’s take a closer look at this in more detail below. We’ll discuss if you can put Koi in a small pond (a 300-gallon size, for example) and if there is such a thing as ‘small’ Koi fish. We’ll also explore the pros and cons of starting a Koi pond, if Koi fish will stay small when kept in a small pond, how many Koi fish can be put in a small pond and whether (or not) they can even survive in anything less than a 500-gallon fishpond.

And now, if you’re ready to learn more about creating and maintaining your own outdoor Koi fishpond, then let’s get to it!

How Deep Should a Small Koi Pond Be?

The absolute minimum recommended depth for a small koi pond is 2 feet.  Anything less is dangerous for the fish. Not only could it potentially suffocate the fish, but it also makes them an easier target for predators. I would say nothing less than a 3-feet deep pond should be considered when creating an outdoor Koi fishpond. The fish will need room to swim should the top few inches of the pond freeze over during the winter months.

Can You Put Koi in a Small Pond?

You can put Koi in a small pond, but it’s not recommended. This species can grow to be quite large (12 to 16 inches is the average length for domestic Koi, but they can get as big as 26 inches for Japanese Koi and a whopping 36 inches for Jumbo Koi). Therefore, the bigger the pond, the better! The minimum size, I’d say, is a 1,000-gallon design with at least 3 feet of depth although, I’ve read some people keep 2 Koi fish in a 500-gallon, 2-feet deep pond.

beautiful koi fish in pond

Can You Get Small Koi?

There really is no such thing as ‘small’ Koi! The smallest ones are around 16 inches full-grown, which is quite big for the average domestic fish. Sunburkins are often referred to as ‘the poor man’s Koi’ and grow to about 15 inches long. They are a happy, active fish that get along with most other species of pond fish. Consider these Koi if making a ‘small’ outdoor fishpond. If healthy and well cared for, they can live up to 20 years!

Will Koi Stay Small in a Small Pond?

Koi will not grow big in a small pond. They need adequate space to move about freely. Keeping this species of fish in a cramped space will negatively affect their overall health. They’ll likely suffer from stress and become physically debilitated while increasing the susceptibility to disease. The only way they ‘stay small’ is if they die young! And, I’m sure you can agree (especially if you’re an avid fish-lover like me) this is not acceptable, under any circumstances.

How Many Koi Fit in a 300-Gallon Pond?

A 300-gallon outdoor pond is not big enough for Koi fish. The general rule-of-thumb is one Koi to every 500 gallons of water. The only time a 300-gallon pond would work is if you’re using it to rear or spawn Koi fry. As they grow, however, they would need to be moved to at least a 500-gallon pond. And, only 2 small Koi fish (at the most) should be in anything less than a 1,000-gallon pond. Typical water conditions when calculated correctly allow for 1 inch of fish per 10 gallons of water, on average.

What is the Best Size Pond for Koi Fish?

The ‘best’ size outdoor pond for Koi fish is at least a 1,000-gallon, 3-feet deep area. When it comes to raising Koi, the bigger, the better! A 3000-gallon outdoor fishpond is ideal for Koi. This will provide enough space for at least 6 fish (3 males and 3 females, preferably) to live a happy, healthy life! The smaller the pond, the greater the risk of losing your fish to disease, stress or predators! When in doubt, always opt for a larger aquatic environment, if possible.

What are the Pros and Cons of Having a Koi Pond?

Just like with any hobby or pastime, there are often pros and cons associated with it. Understanding the benefits and drawbacks will help you decide if it’s indeed something you’re ready and able to pursue. With regards to starting an outdoor Koi pond, some of the advantages and/or disadvantages include (but aren’t limited to) the following:

Pros

  • Hardy – Koi are a very resilient fish. They can live in an outdoor pond all winter long, provided the temperature doesn’t drop below freezing and the water quality is good.
  • Long Life – Koi fish can live up to 100 years, if healthy and well cared for. The average lifespan, however, is 20 to 30 years, which is still a lot by fish standards!
  • Fun to Watch– Koi fish are beautiful to watch! They’re brightly colored fins make them pleasing to the eye while their active nature provides for a fun viewing experience.
  • Peaceful Environment – an outdoor Koi pond creates a calming environment in which to enjoy the beauty of nature. It’s the perfect addition to any outdoor, backyard oasis.
  • Property Value – the addition of an outdoor fishpond will add interest and appeal to your yard as well as increase the overall value of your property. This is undoubtably a ‘win-win’ situation!

Cons

  • Cost – Koi are very expensive to purchase. On average, one small fish can cost around $15 each whereas others can cost upwards of $100 (even as much as $1000) each!
  • Size – Koi are large fish and require a lot of space. A 1,000-gallon pond (as big as it sounds) will only house a mere 4 averaged-sized Koi!
  • Maintenance – keeping Koi in an outdoor pond requires routine maintenance and special filtration equipment. These can be both expensive and time-consuming to keep up.
  • Climate Control – Koi can survive in an outdoor pond with 6 inches of surface or less and temperature as low as 0 degrees Celsius. Anything more (or colder) is not recommended.
  • Predators – Koi kept outside are in greater danger from predators, such as birds and/or cats. Providing some type of defense-system, like netting or an electrified fence is often required.

Conclusion

To conclude, the absolute ‘smallest’ size for a Koi pond is 500-gallons of water and at least 2 feet deep. A 1,000 gallon, 3-foot deep pond is better, especially if you want to keep more than 2 Koi fish. The reason being that this species can grow to be quite big and needs a lot of space to swim around freely.

A pond that’s too small will negatively affect the overall health and happiness of the fish. The perfect size for 4 to 6 Koi, for example, is a 3000-gallon pond that’s around 6 feet deep. When it comes to a Koi fishpond, bigger is always better!

Hopefully this article has been of help to you. Thanks for reading. Good luck and happy fish keeping!

Related Aquariums at Home Articles

Can Koi Fish Live in a Tank?

How to Control Algae in a Pond?

Should You Use a UV Sterilizer?

Why are Koi Fish so Popular?

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