454 casull light loads

Terry Murbach wrote:WE HAVE STARTED TO TALK ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS HERE.

Old Savage wrote:I am thinking maybe 1000 to 1100 fps. Most data is full out on this cartridge. I am thinking something in the neighborhood of 20 Gr of 2400 with a jacketed bullet 250 - 300 gr. Has anyone loaded these. Want to use the 454 brass to avoid the chamber ringing that might go with 45 Colt brass.

AJMD429 wrote:

• Start 300 Speer UCSP Alliant 2400 22.0 gr1209 fps
  Max 300 Speer UCSP Alliant 2400 24.0gr 1325 fps

Mild .454 loads?#1048378209/26/15 Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 C clampdaddyOP Member OP Member C Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 Anybody have any suggestions for some mild .454 Casull loads that are in the 30,000 psi range? I basically want to duplicate stout .45 Colt loads in the longer case.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048390809/26/15 Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 12,644 ND viking Campfire 'Bwana Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 12,644 ND Buffalo Bore for factory.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048395009/26/15 Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 C clampdaddyOP Member OP Member C Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 Sorry, I should have specified. I want to handload them.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048461409/26/15 Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 306 M molly Campfire Regular Campfire Regular M Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 306 Increase your stout 45 colt by about 10% using 454 Casull brass.... example 21gr 2400, 270 cast, 45 colt brass, 1200 fps... 23gr 2400, 270 cast, 454 Casull brass, 1200 fps.... 5" barrel...

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048496409/26/15 I Idaho_Shooter Campfire Kahuna Campfire Kahuna I Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 20,302 West Treasure Valley, Idaho I do this for my 41 mag and for the 327. Pick out the 45 LC load you like and load it into your 454 brass. Then seat the bullet to the SAME COAL as the 45LC load you are duplicating. With most of these loads, I get lucky and can roll crimp just over the ogive of the bullet. On a few loads in the 327, the bullet is actually seated deeper than that. But the cartridge nor the revolver care about that. The round shoots just like it was loaded in 32 H&R or 41 Special brass. And I do not dirty the front of the chamber with short brass. My ideal as a conservative: That each person may reap as he/she has sown.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048575409/26/15 Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 C clampdaddyOP Member OP Member C Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 I've often wondered about doing a deep seat like that. How is case mouth life with the extra crimping that is required?

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048577009/26/15 Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 C clampdaddyOP Member OP Member C Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 Thanks for the 10% tip, Molly.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048600409/26/15 I Idaho_Shooter Campfire Kahuna Campfire Kahuna I Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 20,302 West Treasure Valley, Idaho I've often wondered about doing a deep seat like that. How is case mouth life with the extra crimping that is required? I do not crimp any harder than with a bullet seated to standard length. Just a bit of a roll crimp. In my case, at least, these are light loads and are not difficult to keep the bullet in place. even when fired from the lightweight Titanium Tracker. I do not take any credit for developing this method of building reduced loads. Our esteemed Dr Howell has described doing so in a couple of posts several years ago. It does seem that I am one of very few here to make use of his advice in this matter. 41 mag 210 gr .... 1200 fps on the left w/ SR4756 vs 700 fps w/ Universal on the right My ideal as a conservative: That each person may reap as he/she has sown.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048632209/26/15 Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 46,736 Iowa R RickyD Campfire Oracle Campfire Oracle R Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 46,736 Iowa 4227 gives good velocity with mild recoil. I have a great load using 4227 and 225 grain Barnes for my Casull. Not home now and can't recall the powder charge by memory, but I'd get a pound of 4227 if you don't have one and start working up loads. We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth? Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #1048671409/27/15 Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 C clampdaddyOP Member OP Member C Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 I've often wondered about doing a deep seat like that. How is case mouth life with the extra crimping that is required? I do not crimp any harder than with a bullet seated to standard length. Just a bit of a roll crimp. In my case, at least, these are light loads and are not difficult to keep the bullet in place. even when fired from the lightweight Titanium Tracker. I do not take any credit for developing this method of building reduced loads. Our esteemed Dr Howell has described doing so in a couple of posts several years ago. It does seem that I am one of very few here to make use of his advice in this matter. 41 mag 210 gr .... 1200 fps on the left w/ SR4756 vs 700 fps w/ Universal on the right I like that!

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: RickyD] #1048674009/27/15 Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 C clampdaddyOP Member OP Member C Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 30 4227 gives good velocity with mild recoil. I have a great load using 4227 and 225 grain Barnes for my Casull. Not home now and can't recall the powder charge by memory, but I'd get a pound of 4227 if you don't have one and start working up loads. Thanks. I'll look into that. I'm not concerned about the recoil. The muzzle blast is what I'm trying to bring down. My .44 and .454 are just to loud to spot and stalk hunt with. I know you should "always" wear hearing protection but when I'm creeping through the woods I want to be able to hear everything and if I happen to run up on a buck I don't want to stop and put in ear plugs. The pressure range of stout 45 Colt loads is right under that ear ringing threshold for me. It's more of a deep boom, like a shotgun, an I can tolerate a couple shots without plugs if need be.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048705609/27/15 C CraigD Campfire Regular Campfire Regular C Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,228 SE Idaho I've often wondered about doing a deep seat like that. How is case mouth life with the extra crimping that is required? I do not crimp any harder than with a bullet seated to standard length. Just a bit of a roll crimp. In my case, at least, these are light loads and are not difficult to keep the bullet in place. even when fired from the lightweight Titanium Tracker. I do not take any credit for developing this method of building reduced loads. Our esteemed Dr Howell has described doing so in a couple of posts several years ago. It does seem that I am one of very few here to make use of his advice in this matter. 41 mag 210 gr .... 1200 fps on the left w/ SR4756 vs 700 fps w/ Universal on the right I like that! So do I. I have plenty of 454 brass and this seems to be a way of duplicating the Colt loads without the 10% extra powder. The photo really helps explain the concept. Craig

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1048753809/27/15 I Idaho_Shooter Campfire Kahuna Campfire Kahuna I Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 20,302 West Treasure Valley, Idaho Here is another photo showing minimum recoil loads for the 41, a 165 gr cast loaded to 650 fps with Universal for the kids to shoot. These 41 loads are actually more akin to wildcat work since the load manuals do not show 41 Special spec loads. But I do the exact same thing with the 327 by loading to 32 H&R specs and length with a 100 gr bullet, or to 32 S&W with a 78 gr Lasercast. With a 357, 44 mag or 454 the concept is quite simplified as you have abundant 38 special, 44 special, or 45 LC data to work from. My ideal as a conservative: That each person may reap as he/she has sown.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1049044409/27/15 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 55,256 WI. Redneck Campfire Oracle Campfire Oracle Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 55,256 WI. 4227 gives good velocity with mild recoil. I have a great load using 4227 and 225 grain Barnes for my Casull. Not home now and can't recall the powder charge by memory, but I'd get a pound of 4227 if you don't have one and start working up loads. Thanks. I'll look into that. I'm not concerned about the recoil. The muzzle blast is what I'm trying to bring down. My .44 and .454 are just to loud to spot and stalk hunt with. I know you should "always" wear hearing protection but when I'm creeping through the woods I want to be able to hear everything and if I happen to run up on a buck I don't want to stop and put in ear plugs. Wear a pair of Peltor Tac-6 muffs and you can then forget about everything else.. AND - you'll actually hear MORE than you did before.. NRA Benefactor member. Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Gunsmith since '98. Pro-Constitution. Molon Labe..

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1049316009/28/15 C CraigD Campfire Regular Campfire Regular C Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,228 SE Idaho Actual load data - 260-grain FA TCGC bullet over 14.0 of Unique (yes I know its dirty) chronograph at 1335. I fired these today. No idea of pressure.

Re: Mild .454 loads? [Re: clampdaddy] #1049492409/28/15 Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 110 P plastikosmd Member Member P Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 110 I second the earmuff idea, as a kid I would shoot without ear protection and not think about it. As I've gotten older, I am more of a wuss, even in the woods

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FREEDOM ARMS LOADING DATA:

LOADING RECOMMENDATIONS

FOR REVOLVERS MANUFACTURED BY FREEDOM ARMS CHAMBERED
FOR 454 CASULL ONLY!

WARNING:
THIS RELOADING INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AS A SUPPLEMENT TO ASSIST PROFICIENT HANDLOADERS IN FINDING SOME SUITABLE LOADS FOR THEIR NEEDS. THERE ARE MANY GOOD HANDBOOKS AVAILABLE FOR THE BEGINNING HANDLOADERS. IT IS SUGGESTED THAT SOMEONE STARTING OUT, OBTAIN AND STUDY ONE OF THESE MANUALS. MOST FIREARMS DEALERS CAN PROVIDE THE MANUALS AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT TO ASSIST THE BEGINNING HANDLOADERS.

PLEASE PROCEED WITH CAUTION. MAKE THE SHOOTING SPORTS SAFE AND ENJOYABLE FOR ALL OF THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS FASCINATING AND EXCITING SPORT.

DUE TO THE INABILITY OF FREEDOM ARMS TO CONTROL RELOADING PROCEDURES, USE THE RECOMMENDATIONS ONLY IN FIREARMS THAT ARE IN GOOD, AND SAFE MECHANICAL CONDITION. THE INDIVIDUAL ASSUMES THE RISK OF SAFE LOADING PRACTICES. FAILURE TO DO SO MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY AND/OR DEATH TO THE INDIVIDUAL OR BYSTANDERS.

FREEDOM ARMS ACCEPTS NO LIABILITY FOR THE USE OF THIS DATA.

PRESSURE DATA WAS DEVELOPED AND SUBMITTED BY THE BALLISTICS LABS OF THE ACCURATE ARMS COMPANY INC., HODGDON POWDER COMPANY, AND HORNADAY MANUFACTURING COMPANY.

BALLISTICS’ COMPARISON CHART. FOR REFERENCE ONLY!

LOADING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR REVOLVERS MANUFACURED BY FREEDOM ARMS CHAMBERED FOR 454 CASULL ONLY!
ALL VELOCITIES ARE FOR : 7.5″ PRESSURE BARREL.*
BULLET DIAMETERS ARE : .451 / .452
PRIMER SIZE : SMALL RIFLE REM. # 7 1/2
CASE TRIM LENGTH : 1.380″
MAXIMUM CASE LENGTH : 1.385″
MAXIMUM O.A.L. LENGTH: 1.765″

*Note:
Data work up done in a Standard Receiver Pressure Barrel unless otherwise noted. Revolver velocities will be different depending on barrel length.
A good rule of thumb to go by is: Expect a 50 to 75 f.p.s velocity difference, per barrel length.
Example:
A 6″ barrel would be approximately 50 to 75 f.p.s. slower than listed below.
A 10″ barrel would be approximately 50 to 75 f.p.s. faster than listed below.

+ Factory Equivalent loads. Testing done in 7 1/2″ Revolver & 7 1/2″ Pressure barrel where indicated.

TECHNICAL TIPS FOR RELOADING THE 454 CASULL

TIP #1: Magnum primers are recommended for reloading for the 454 Casull.TM
Magnum primers perform more reliably at temperatures below zero degrees F.. Magnum primers will most often give more uniform velocities in magnum pistol loads using slow powders, and heavy bullets. More importantly the heavier construction of the primer cup prevents metal flow back, and provides a more positive ignition. Remember to always seat the primer below the case head to prevent recoil from firing the cartridge while not aligned with the barrel.

TIP #2: An important SAFETY FACT to remember:
When loading slow burning ball powders in reduced loads, NEVER load cases below 90% of capacity. Powders like H110 or W296 are prime examples of this condition. The reduced loads are harder to ignite by the primer, and sometimes NEVER ignite at all. This creates a DANGEROUS condition. What happens next, is that after the gun is fired and no report is heard, the primer pushes the bullet part way into the barrel. Another round is rotated into position after the first round. When the firearm is fired again with the barrel obstructed by the first round’s bullet, damage to the firearm and injury to the user generally results.

TIP #3: Reloading dies?
The use of dies other than specified for the 454 CASULL IS NOT RECOMMENDED! Reloading dies manufactured for the 454 CASULL have different internal dimensions than 45 Long Colt dies. The two main differences are: 1.> The crimp die is different than the standard crimp die in a way that allows a tapered roll crimp to retain the heavier bullets at the higher velocities. 2.> The sizing die is smaller in diameter to help in the retention of the heavier bullets. Also the longer length allows full length sizing of the longer 454 case.

NOTE: ALWAYS DO THE BULLET SEATING AND CRIMPING IN TWO STEPS. THIS REDUCES THE CHANCE OF THE CASE SIDE WALLS COLLAPSING WHEN APPLYING THE HEAVY CRIMPS

TIP #4: AFTER REFERRING TO YOUR FAVORITE RELOADING MANUAL.
An important fact to remember while loading above 1400 F.P.S.. The construction of the bullet is very important. The intent of the final loaded round is also important, and needs to be considered also. Most commercially made pistol bullets available today are designed for expansion at velocities below 1400 F.P.S. Using bullets above this velocity results in poor accuracy, because the bullets can not withstand the higher pressures generated at these higher velocities. The deformation of the bullets base when fired results in poor accuracy. The higher velocities also cause bullet jacket separation and bullet weight loss, during uncontrolled expansion. When the pressure is high enough the jacket could separate from the bullet in the cylinder, or in flight.

ALSO ANOTHER IMPORTANT FACT IS, THE FASTER THE VELOCITY AND THE SOFTER THE BULLET, THE QUICKER THE FORCING CONE AREA IN THE BARREL WILL WEAR OUT.
NEVER EXCEED THE MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR VELOCITY MAXIMUMS!

WARNING!

Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas, cleaning firearms, or handling ammunition may result in exposure to lead and other substances known to cause birth defects, reproductive harm, and other serious physical injury. Have adequate ventilation at all times. Wash hands thoroughly after exposure.

KEEP ALL RELOADING COMPONENTS, AMMUNITION AND FIREARMS OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN AT ALL TIMES!

Senior Member

Quote:

why not just use .45C cases and projectiles and save a few bucks?

Probably the same reason I don't shoot .38s in my .357s, or .44Spec in my .44Mags . I can load .357 brass down to .38 special power, ditto with .44Mag. Eliminate the carbon ring headache too..... Just a personal preference! I seem to recall, in the Freedom Arm revolvers, the company even discourages shooting .45 Colt in their .454 revolvers....

Quote:

I guess my question was clearly answered.

Yep. I couldn't image what problems you could run into when loading low pressure loads. In .357 you can use regular small pistol primers at magnum pressures, so why not? Of course, full house .454 is twice the pressure, which is where the rifle primer comes into play. 1000fps under a 270g bullet is plenty fun and useful for the lower 48 states. Not a 'puff' (600-700fps) load by no means.

__________________
A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.