Best barrel length for 300 blackout pistol suppressed

Best barrel length for 300 blackout pistol suppressed DEFAULT

Re: Barrel Length for Suppressed SBR 300 BLK

Postby dvp18 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:48 am

Not necessarily, people tend to use them on precision guns because they are generally a little lighter than QD cans and the can is attached directly to the gun instead being attached to a muzzle device that is attached to the gun. Most people, myself included prefer QD cans on semi autos, it allows you to use one can on multiple rifles without having to install or remove anything from the gun to attach it. I have a Saker 762 that I can mount on any of my ARs (556, 300blk and 308) because they all have the same muzzle device.

This is the pricing I have seen for the Dead Air stuff, it's not confirmed info, but I have no reason to thinks it's wrong. Also these are MSRP prices, the street prices should be a somewhat lower. Red is my best guess at actual prices from dealers.

SANDMAN Ti - 762mm direct thread $849.00 MSRP $699-749

SANDMAN S - 762mm QD Silencer Muzzle Brake included $1,049.00 MSRP $849

SANDMAN L - 762mm QD Silencer Muzzle Brake included $1,199.00 MSRP $899

Sours: https://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92238
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Quoted:
How do you feel about the sandman s for 300 blackout subsonic in general, I got it to use with my 10.5 556 gun and I understand it wont be very quiet, is it worth building/buying a 300 blackout upper to use with this can if the purpose would be for when i want a very quiet short package? I already have a jp silent capture spring, will I be disappointed with how subs sound with the sandman s, since everyone is saying its not very quiet im thinking i might as well get the shortest package and go for the 6 inch barrel

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I will also suggest adding an adjustable gas block to your setup.

@Mageever suggested the superlative arms AGB in another thread, and I am going to try one on a 300Blk build next week, for use with the Sandman-S and an 8" barrel.

As others have said already, quality subsonic ammo is a MUST! Tried the Remington USC 220gr stuff, and had a few go super in the middle of a string of shots. My preferred subsonic 300 is S&B 200gr sub. Very consistent from what I have experienced.

How do you feel about the sandman s for 300 blackout subsonic in general, I got it to use with my 10.5 556 gun and I understand it wont be very quiet, is it worth building/buying a 300 blackout upper to use with this can if the purpose would be for when i want a very quiet short package? I already have a jp silent capture spring, will I be disappointed with how subs sound with the sandman s, since everyone is saying its not very quiet im thinking i might as well get the shortest package and go for the 6 inch barrel
You kind of have 2 threads on the same issue going here- Sandman-S and 300Blk.

I didn't buy a Sandman-S just for 300Blk. I have several centerfire rifle silencers and I like to be able to swap them around as much as possible. Having a silencer that can only be ran on 1 firearm is not something I like to do, with few exceptions (Integrals like my Mist-22, MP5-SD clone).

ARs are gassy, and you have to take steps to tame them down. Adjustable gas blocks, buffer weights and recoil springs to name a few.

As others said in your other thread, we don't really know your expectations of "quiet" and what your ears hear. My 10.3" 300Blk with Sandman-S sounds good, with S&B 200gr subsonics. It's nothing to write home about, but for rifle-caliber AR platform, I am happy with it. And I can put that can on my 20" REM700, my 7.5" 5.56, my 12" 308, my 9" AKs... and I don't worry about it.

I have a SilencerCo Omega pending, and I have a feeling the Omega with Key-Mo mount will be my "Go To" 300Blk can, but shooting 300Blk on my AR, I wasn't disappointed by any means.

Also- here's my 8" 300Blk upper I assembled today:

Sours: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/quietest-barrel-length-for-300-blackout-suppressed-/20-485156/
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MMH said:

Yes, a permanent shroud that the suppressor would fit inside of, thus the suppressor would fit inside the shroud and thus not add to the length. With a 9" barrel and 7" shroud length the overall length would meet the 16" requirement w/ or without the suppressor. With a 9" suppressor, 2" would extend beyond the shroud and the overall barrel length would be 18".

I would shoot subs and supers, and would develop loads for both. Obviously, barrel length is not critical for subs. and virtually any reasonable length will do. For supers it is a different story. Shorter barrel length will result in less velocity. Do you have data to substantiate that "9" is the best? What would be the velocity difference for a 125 gr. supersonic in a 9" & 11" barrel? The velocity difference for a 155 & 178 super?

I know exactly what I want to achieve and am trying to get some input so I can make the best decision. The fact that you do not understand my question means just that - you do not understand.

Click to expand...


Haha, ok dude...I've never seen one of those shrouds before. Forgive me. Now that i have seen one, i wouldn't ever own one because I'm still just going to build a pistol with a real barrel at whatever length i want, but if that's what you really want then go for it.

And no, i don't have specific data for each inch of barrel length and it's affect on velocity with supers. In general, longer means faster. 300 blk was designed to be efficient out of short barrels, so it's a game of diminishing returns. I was told, in person, by the man who developed the round that 9" is the best compromise for use with supers and subs, so I'll just take his word for it. I believe he said 12" would be full or near full performance with supers.

Of course, if you're handloading, you could probably get creative with powder selection and get more performance with a longer barrel, but it sounds like you want to keep it light and handy. So, 12" for supersonic performance without being too long and unwieldy. 9" for a good compromise with supers and subs in a gun that mimics a standard 16" carbine in handling. 7" for a compact, handy rig that can still shoot supersonic ammo with some effectiveness. Final answer. Good luck with your build.

 

Sours: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/optimal-length-for-300-blk.6969387/
redtazdog wrote:

rimshaker wrote:300 BLK has complete powder burn in a 9" barrel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xur1yshd5U

Don't know about the 8.2" length though. And I prefer whole numbers. What's up with fractional lengths anyway??

Besides, I'll stick with the guys who actually developed and standardized the ammo itself.

A 9" barrel will give you a larger gap between the can and hand guard, Noveski builds for function and looks.
The combo 8.2 barrel and a carbine hand guard will allow a QD can to fit and look almost like the can is part of the hand guard.
The 10.2 barrel with a mid length hand guard looks good too.
Stealthy look
And if you didn't know aac just reinvented the 300 whisper wheel and made it sami then it put it in the main stream
unlike the person that invented it and kept it as a wildcat.
I have had both since they were first made and they both use the same barrels, gas ports, bolts ect ect
Hint Hint
The pistol gas port is more problem less with most all lengths of barrels and not as picky with ammo,
this is one of the reasons Noveski went to only pistol ports.
Sours: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113124

Blackout 300 for pistol best suppressed barrel length

Warrior Talk Forums > RIFLES, SHOTGUNS, AND SUBMACHINEGUNS > M4 RIFLES AND PISTOLS > Is there an optimum barrel length for .300 Blackout pistols?


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CR Williams

03-18-2015, 06:17 AM

Scanning the possibilities I see 8" to 10.5". I know 10.5" is the base for .556 without some work on the gas system, but don't know if there is a corresponding reliable-operations minimum for .300 B. Seeking enlightenment on this.


chad newton

03-18-2015, 07:10 AM

I just read from the manufacturers website that with a 9" barrel you are still 5% better ballistics then a 14.5" 5.56 at 450yards. What you need to ask the manufacturer is what is best to run subsonic ammo with a silencer. It still looked like 9", but I would probably ask them too. Just for shits and giggles. The manufacturer probably developed it around curtain perameters.


Gabriel Suarez

03-18-2015, 07:17 AM

Mine are all 10"


Yondering

03-18-2015, 09:42 AM

9" to 10.5" seem to be the best compromise between size and ballistics. I shortened my 300 Blk barrel from 11" to 9", and noticed a significant velocity loss; more than most internet posts would have you believe. 9" is fine, and reliability is not an issue, but if doing it again, I would stay with 10-10.5". I'm not a fan of the really short 6"-8" barrels, that's too short IMO for general use.

For subsonics, it doesn't matter that much. Shorter barrels are a bit louder suppressed, but I doubt you could tell much difference between 8" and 11" barrels. Decent subsonic ammunition should stay subsonic regardless of barrel length in that range.

AAC published some good information about this stuff several years ago, it's still out there in a Powerpoint format, you should be able to find it by googling 300 Blackout.


TFA303

03-18-2015, 10:52 AM

As I recall, AAC designed the round to burn most all its powder within 9-10", so anything much more than that isn't getting you much ballistic ROI.


Yondering

03-18-2015, 12:08 PM

Those are a couple common misconceptions floating around the internet - AAC didn't design the round, they commercialized an existing wildcat and did a really great job of marketing. The "burn all it's powder in XX inches" is an oversimplification and misunderstanding of what happens in the barrel, but the 300 does still make use of longer barrels, giving higher velocity in a 16" than a 9-12". How much higher depends a lot on the load, but can be as much as 250-300 fps compared to a 9".


TFA303

03-18-2015, 12:21 PM

Those are a couple common misconceptions floating around the internet - AAC didn't design the round, they commercialized an existing wildcat and did a really great job of marketing. The "burn all it's powder in XX inches" is an oversimplification and misunderstanding of what happens in the barrel, but the 300 does still make use of longer barrels, giving higher velocity in a 16" than a 9-12". How much higher depends a lot on the load, but can be as much as 250-300 fps compared to a 9".

Thanks for straightening that out for me!


Yondering

03-18-2015, 03:24 PM

No problem. For some reason the 300 Blk market seems to have a higher than usual share of inexperienced shooters, so there's a lot of bad information that gets repeated a lot. Another common misconception is that subsonics require a different setup, when really a correctly set up AR in 300 can run super and sub loads mixed in the same mag with no issues.


WarGoat

03-18-2015, 05:50 PM

Before being able to credibly answer the question, what is the intended purpose? You know the reason why I built an AR15 in .300 Blackout, so my weapon's barrel length is much shorter than most other builds.


baker

03-18-2015, 06:08 PM

I am surprised at how loud 300blk is out of my 10.5" pistol, suppressed. 308 suppressed from a 16" barrel is quieter to my ears. I wouldn't want anything shorter than 10".


Red Ryder

03-18-2015, 09:22 PM

I am surprised at how loud 300blk is out of my 10.5" pistol, suppressed. 308 suppressed from a 16" barrel is quieter to my ears. I wouldn't want anything shorter than 10".
Baker: what kind of can and load are you using on the 300 BLK? With a 30 caliber Arbiter, I have shot a 9" 300 with 220 Grain subsonics and it sounded like a suppressed .22


CR Williams

03-19-2015, 05:40 AM

Before being able to credibly answer the question, what is the intended purpose? You know the reason why I built an AR15 in .300 Blackout, so my weapon's barrel length is much shorter than most other builds.

Probably a replacement for the current traveling gun which is a 7.5" barrel AR pistol, package length about 24" I believe. I'd have to have a total package length of 20" give or take one to have it replace the in-town 9mm.


baker

03-19-2015, 09:05 AM

sorry, the subs are very quiet, the supers are really loud. AAC 762


Yondering

03-19-2015, 10:15 AM

Baker: what kind of can and load are you using on the 300 BLK? With a 30 caliber Arbiter, I have shot a 9" 300 with 220 Grain subsonics and it sounded like a suppressed .22

Your suppressed .22 must be a lot louder than mine. My 9" 300 with subs and either my Form 1 can or Liberty Mystic is reasonably quiet, but nowhere near .22 levels. Maybe similar or a little louder than the same Mystic on my G19 with subs. The AR15 action makes a lot of noise.

With that said, .300 subsonics in a bolt gun, suppressed, can be as quiet as a suppressed 22.

I agree the short barreled .300 can be pretty loud, compared to a 16" 223. Compared to a short .223 though, the 300 has a significant advantage.


barnetmill

07-14-2015, 03:44 PM

Thanks for straightening that out for me!

It was called the 300 whisper and from what I understand there is often some degree interchangeability relative to shooting one in the other's chamber.

From wikipedia and Google is your friend.
The .300 Whisper is a CIP standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l%27Epre uve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Whisper#cite_note-1) cartridge in the Whisper family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisper_Family_of_Firearm_Cartridges), a group of cartridges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29) developed in the early 1990s by J.D. Jones of SSK Industries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSK_Industries). It was developed as a multi-purpose cartridge, capable of utilizing relatively lightweight bullets at supersonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic) velocities as well as heavier bullets (200–250 grains) at subsonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound) velocities.
.300 Whisper is also sometimes known as .300 Fireball or .300-221, but there is some variation in dimensions and pressure between these cartridges.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Whisper#cite_note-2) Some implementations of .300 Whisper meet the SAAMI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI) specifications for 300 AAC Blackout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9735mm).


Paper Shredder

11-14-2015, 01:00 PM

Tribe, I'm just reviving this thread selfishly as I would like a final validation for my needs.

Seems like I've barked up every tree and wanted to take my 5.56 AR Pistol from 10.5" to sub 9". This has lead me to this corner of WT. A journey a year in the making! I don't know why I was so adverse to the round before!

So here I am, about to build a new upper.

Intended use:

Primary mission: EDC conceal bag carry/ terrorist / active shooter interdiction

Range: under 100m

Target: 2 legged oxygen thieves

AO: urban/ suburban.

What length and round do you gents recommend?


Yondering

11-14-2015, 01:49 PM

My preference, for the use you describe:

110gr Barnes "Black Tip" (1st choice) or 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (2nd choice). Underwood ammo sells the 125gr BT ammo.

For barrel length, you're picking a point on a curve, no particular spot is "best", any length is a compromise in some form. I use a 9" right now for backpack carry. That does give up some terminal performance compared to a 10.5". Some guys like shorter barrels, but I would always choose at least 9" and a short muzzle device, compared to some of the 7-8" barrels some guys use with large muzzle devices.


tact999

11-14-2015, 06:16 PM

I prefer a 9" barrel myself.


Atlanta_FOF

11-14-2015, 06:55 PM

@Papershredder. Echo17 and I have been doing a bit of investigation around EDC carry. Here are a couple of tid bits:

.300 Blackout barrel length. I have run both 9" ACC and 10.5 SI uppers. They have both been very reliable with both sub-sonic and super sonic rounds.

For EDC carry, the real issue is how big is your bag - typical laptop is around 17", you can get 22" in un-usual bag sizes (e.g., 5.11 triangle, Sneaky bag large laptop). and 26" in things like 5.11. The biggest length saving is to run a Law Tactical Folder - benefits and limitations have been discussed on WT. You can get a few inches by working on the edges - barrel length, flash hider (SI Kompressor),. collapsing stocks like the Troy.

Personal preference, barrel length below 9-10" is the last place that I would go to reduce overall weapon length.



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Paper Shredder

11-14-2015, 08:10 PM

Thanks for the tips, yes forgot to mention that Law folder is on order. I'm sold on the concept as the capability on shooting folded is not applicable as its not a SMG (auto, spray ability) and if I need it that maneuverable, my G19 will be deployed.

It does seem that 9" is preferred but 8/7.5 isn't a huge handicap right? I want the folding stock and the barrel length as short as possible without going to SMG platforms or calibers.


Yondering

11-14-2015, 11:09 PM

The difference between 9" and 7.5" is almost as big as the difference between 16" and 9". You do give up significantly more velocity per inch when you go shorter than 9-10" on the Blackout.


Paper Shredder

11-18-2015, 07:57 PM

My preference, for the use you describe:

110gr Barnes "Black Tip" (1st choice) or 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (2nd choice). Underwood ammo sells the 125gr BT ammo.

For barrel length, you're picking a point on a curve, no particular spot is "best", any length is a compromise in some form. I use a 9" right now for backpack carry. That does give up some terminal performance compared to a 10.5". Some guys like shorter barrels, but I would always choose at least 9" and a short muzzle device, compared to some of the 7-8" barrels some guys use with large muzzle devices.

I've been searching high and low and for readily available manufactured ammo, 125gr SMK seems to be the closest to your recommendation. I'm not at a place to reload my own yet.

I also found 110gr Hornady vmax custom as well as 147gr Fiocchi FMJs.

If I'm under 100m range, will the drop be discernible between rounds if they are all supers? Thanks.


Yondering

11-18-2015, 10:52 PM

The 147's will be different, not so much from drop but just different point of impact.

The 125 SMK should be a decent practice load with similar POI to the 125 BT rounds. I wouldn't recommend the 125 SMK for serious use though.

Same for the 110gr V-max and 110gr Black Tip, although the V-max is a decent bullet itself. It tends to open up pretty quick, some say too much for large game (shallower penetration), but pretty decent for 2 legged targets.


warriorscience4u

11-19-2015, 08:17 AM

With 1:7 twist AAC produces them in 9" and 12.5". Gotta think they know what they're doing.

Travis Haley has a vid out on his year in .300 BO, from about '13 or '14 IIRC, can't remember if he mentions barrel length but he might.


odieduke

01-30-2016, 03:31 AM

Like others have said-AAC didn't invent the round-just used a parent case that is extremely popular and cheap.I was shooting a .300W 20-25yrs ago in my Contender-suppressed very quiet.super-still quiet compared to a 5.56....JD Jones is a nut when it comes to crazy cartridges,I love his stuff-his ideas almost drove me into bankruptcy-OMG a new barrel/cartridge,gotta have one:)Wife threatened divorce if I ever communicated with him again.....As a historical aside-the round was also being developed at Eglin AFB in late 60-70s for and I'll have to find my old research papers....."For the elimination of threats to a fluid dynamic situation"......beauracrat speak for taking out a sentry quietly...I believe they consulted/used JDs developments.


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Sours: http://www.warriortalk.com/archive/index.php/t-123763.html
300 Blackout Barrel Length Velocity Difference

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