Musket cap vs 11

Musket cap vs 11 DEFAULT

Thread: Musket Caps vs Percussion Caps

runnin lead, Why do you think you need a musket cap? Has your rifle not been % reliable in the past, especially when hunting? It seems to me that reliability has more to do with ambient humidity; powder type and moisture content; nipple design; flash channel design (Is there a direct path from bottom of nipple to powder charge?); whether the flash channel is clear of oil, preservatives and/or debris than the source of ignition used. However, this hasn't stopped various manufacturers from selling "% reliable" percussion caps or sealed systems which use small rifle primers. "Flam N Go," now renamed was an example of the latter. Although it worked well enough, the inconvenience of using it far outweighed any advantage it bestowed. Btw, point of impact didn't change one bit when I tried it. Then too, some inline rifles are sold with different breechplugs so as to allow the use of # shotshell primers, # primers contained in a plastic disc, musket caps, and #'s 10 or 11 caps, although this has to do more with state conservation (hunting) laws than reliable ignition. My Knight rifle allows these options and, as I had a surplus of # primers I tried them with and without discs v. #10 and #11 caps, changing nothing else. Projectiles (roundballs and Maxi-Balls) grouped as they always had, regardless of the type of primer used. Had I used a chronograph, I may have been able to measure differences in velocity and then determine whether those differences were due to chance or not, but I didn't. I will confess though that musket caps and # primers in discs are a bit easier to handle with your fingers in cold weather than the #10's and # 11's, but that's why cappers are made. In sum, I'm not convinced that you'll gain much by switching to the "big bang" of a bigger cap. Just some food for thought.

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My buddy is telling me how #11 caps are probably the problem which I'm not sure I disagree with. He told me I should go get the musket cap nipple and some musket caps.
Gees, I like the way your buddy thinks as all my In-Line hunters are converted to the Musket Primer. As others have mentioned, the problem is in the #11 nipple fit. You can say that the problem is in the #11 cap or the nipple and you would be right. Recently one our teaching side-lock CVA,s, I had to replace the nipple and from past experience, I knew that I might get into the same problem you are having. Was not disappointed and after polishing the cone section a bit, let it go. The problem has not entirely gone away but great opertunity to use it as a teaching aid. Between groups, we definitely have to clean the cone or seating areas. There are many advantages to converting to a Musket Primer.


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#11 or Musket cap#/06/14

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ShagOfflineOP

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You all got an opinion on which to use? I use a #11 percussion cap. But I'm thinking about trying a Musket cap.

Thanks



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Shag] #/06/14

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I've always heard that musket caps were better, but don't know of any head-to-head testing that's been done. I'd take some of each, dunk 'em in water for a few seconds, and see which one had the most misfires. If you get no misfires, dunk 'em a little longer and see what happens.

I'd be interested in the results, just out of curiosity.




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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: smokepole] #/06/14
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I read a long time ago that the CCI Magnum cap was actually hotter than a musket cap, but don't recall where I saw it or what proof was offered, if any.

I used musket caps for a while on my Greyhawk, but had trouble with FTFs. After trying to figure it out for a while, I called TC and the tech told me to check the length of the nipple. Sure enough, it was too long, which changed the angle the hammer struck at and caused the FTFs. I never got around to buying another musket nipple, but just went back to #11s.

The main advantage of the musket caps is that they are much easier to handle. Thy do seem to be a bit scarce these days and all caps are pretty expensive; much higher than regular s bought by the



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Pappy] #/07/14

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Yes, if you can find a source of #11 magnum CCI caps anywhere (in stock), let me know. I am currently using Winchester magnum caps, and they seem to be working well.


Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: txhunter58] #/07/14
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I use musket caps on my Thompson inline and have had good luck. I like that system better than a shotgun primer. I only use gr of powder and the nipple has holes in the sides and end. Never had a misfire. miles



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: milespatton] #/07/14

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I haven't seen #11's or musket caps for sale in my neck of the woods in a long time. Back in the day, I noted that RWS #11's were a lot hotter than any other #

That being said, the musket caps I've used (Navy Arms, CCI, RWS) ALL put out more fire volume than any # it's just science, there's more burning material in the larger cap.

As far as I know, RWS musket caps are the only type that are still around anymore.



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: n8dawg6] #/07/14

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Lotsa CCI's locally-Muddy


Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: muddy22] #/07/14

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Lotsa CCI's locally-Muddy



musket or 11's?


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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Shag] #/07/14

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You all got an opinion on which to use? I use a #11 percussion cap. But I'm thinking about trying a Musket cap.

Thanks

Somewhere on [probably] this forum, I posted CCI temperature and gas production data for a great many caps. No need to guess.


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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Naphtali] #/07/14

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LNFOffline

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I had a Black Mountain Magnum when they first came out. Beautiful gun, terribly inaccuratebut it did shoot both type of caps and I never had a problem either way igniting the powder.



Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Naphtali] #/07/14

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You all got an opinion on which to use? I use a #11 percussion cap. But I'm thinking about trying a Musket cap.

Thanks

Somewhere on [probably] this forum, I posted CCI temperature and gas production data for a great many caps. No need to guess.


Could not find your post in a search ???


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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Shag] #/08/14

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benchmanOnline Content

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I use a musket cap. I DO think it is hotter, but have not measured it - just observation. Was having some pyrodex ignition problems and it solved them. The main reason is they are a LOT easier for me to handle.


Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: benchman] #/08/14
milespattonOnline Content

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I DO think it is hotter, but have not measured it - just observation. Was having some pyrodex ignition problems and it solved them. The main reason is they are a LOT easier for me to handle.



Pretty much my take. I have a capper, that I use when hunting, but do not really like. When I am just shooting I use a pair of Hemostats (I think that is the name) and grip an ear with them , and install. Works real good with a scope on. miles


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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: milespatton] #/08/14

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I use musket caps when I'm lighting off large (grs.) black powder charges in my and round ball hunting rifles. I have a few British style target rifles that came from the factory with musket nipples but converted them back to # No need for them in those rifles as I'm only burning grains of black powder. If I used any substitute powder like pyrodex or Triple 7 i would use the musket cap to ensure instant ignition because of the higher ignition temperatures.


Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Shag] #/08/14

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Musket caps all the way, all I use on all my sidelocks, I use the 'top hat' style and give em a little pinch around the top rim to keep em snug on the nipple while hunting.

That being said a good magnum cap will/is more weather/water proof, the musket caps are slitted along the sides and can let in moisture on rainy hunts, I have used a bit of boore butter around the circumference of the musket caps to keep moisture out while afield.



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: gunner] #/08/14

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The ones from Nobel are not slitted


Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: benchman] #/08/14

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, I'll have to go out to the shop and look, think mine are RWS.



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Kodiakisland] #/17/14
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Are the musket caps and #11 caps interchangble on the same nipple, or do you need different size nipples?



Not even close. The musket caps are larger in every dimension. If possible, I recommend getting a replacement nipple from the maker of your rifle to avoid the problem I related earlier.

If you can find the caps, this is a pretty cheap modification, and makes your rifle a good bit more user- friendly afield. Plus, the musket caps just look cool.


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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Pappy] #/23/14

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I got 6 f.p.s faster with a musket cap over a number The musket cap is handier in the field.


Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Pappy] #/31/14

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Musket caps, and never look back:

- much easier to handle
- hotter flame
- more flame volume

I made the switch 15 years ago and won't go back. I don't use 's only because the musket caps work so well. I spent 7 or 8 years hunting New England winters so snow & rain, with no problems. That said there is less room for improvement with an inline than a side lock.

FYI I think the RWS caps are the best but I've never had a complaint about any make.



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: kragman1] #/01/14
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http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthre-and-gas-production-of-percussion-caps

The following data were published in:

Muzzle Blasts, Ralph Lermayer, "Madison Avenue, Congress, and Controversial Ballistics," May , page


CCI Primer And Percussion Cap Chart
[li]# Lg Rifle . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]
[li]# Lg Rifle Mag . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]
[li]# . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]
[li]#10 . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]
[li]#11 . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]
[li]#11 Mag . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]
[li]Musket Cap . . . Flame Temperature F� . . . Gas Volume (cc) [/li]



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Re: #11 or Musket cap [Re: Pappy] #/02/14

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Yep according to that chart, the Musket Caps are % "hotter" than the standard percussion caps, rimfire priming material and in-line shotgun primers and produce about times greater gas volume of than the standard percussion caps.



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#11 vs Musket Cap vs

Rocko,

As a fellow owner of a 77/50 I'll share with you some of my experiences. I initially started with #11's and 2F Triple 7, I would get slight delays with ignition with this combo so I switched to the finer grade 3F and 'bingo' no more delayed firings.

I wasn't happy with the fact that I got delays with 2F so I had Ruger send me a Musket cap breech plug and 'walah' no more delays with 2F. I'm not really sure why I was having problems with 2F and #11's but I think it might have something to do with the design of the plug as the Ruger is very different compared to a Knight or T/C plug (I did make sure the nipple was clean and free of any debris BTW)

If you can still get a Musket cap breech plug I would say go ahead and get one, I only use Musket caps now in that rifle; I really like them in the field as they are easier to handle and they don't break up into little pieces after firing like 11s frequently do, that makes getting rid of the spent cap that much easier. As far as accuracy is concerned I've achieved very acceptable groups with 2F T7 and Musket caps. Just my cents guys.

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Vs musket 11 cap

#11 percussion caps versus musket caps.

I used musket caps with my Pattern Enfield cal. rifle-musket for over 30 years as a Civil War reenactor with no complaints, and they aremuch easier to handle than No. 11s, particularly in the cold. However, I would never use them on my Great Plains Rifle or T/C Renegade because they are way too expensive and hard to get now, and I've never had a single problem with a No. 11 not going off, other than a few times when the nipple was clogged after extended shooting. And, I have several No. 11 cappers that work very well. I have one tin of German musket caps left for my Enfield for living history demonstrations and when they are gone, I'm going to retire the rifle to hanging on my wall, and concentrate on shooting my cals. I can get No. 11s at Academy or Walmart cheap.
If you do go with musket caps and a musket cap nipple on your non-military ML, get a good leather cap box like this russet Confederate model, with lambs wool inside. Very easy to use and get musket caps from ”” but they ain't cheap. I tried keeping caps loose in my pocket once during a reenactment battle and that didn't work out well at all. Or, just keep them in the tin they come in if you aren't trying to do period.

 

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percussion cap basics

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